Saturday, October 6, 2012

The translation of "alienate" and one quote from TSV: a follow-up to Chapter 23 & 24


# The translation of “alienate”
In the chapter 21, Marx states:
The money-capitalist, in fact, alienates a use-value, and thus whatever he gives away is given as a commodity. (Capital, Vol.3, p.472, Penguin version)
Does the term, alienate, here means the social philosophy sense alienation, or simply the synonyms of transfer or deliver? (There are also many "alienate" used in other sentences within the chapter 21)
In the original German version of Das Kapital, the word used here is “veräuβert”, which can be directly translated into English as “alienate”. However, the word “alienate” in English can refer to different meanings. In the legal literature about the property right, the same “alienate” means transfer or deliver.
According to the context, Marx here is trying to describe that the use-value of capital is gave or lent to the industrial capital as a commodity, so I think that the meaning of the word “alienate” in the chapter 21 is more close to “transfer” or “deliver” rather than the social philosophy sense alienation.
In other chapters and sections, where Marx explicitly refers to the social philosophy sense alienation, Marx usually uses the word, entfremdete, rather than "veräuβert." Such as in the chapter 23:
Due to the alienated character of capital, its antithesis to labour, being relegated to a place outside the actual process of exploitation, namely to the interest-bearing capital… (Capital, Vol. 3, p.382, International version)

Since the estranged  character  of capital,  its  antithesis  to  labour,  is  shifted 
outside the actual process of exploitation, i.e. into interest-bearing 
capital... (Capital, Vol. 3, p.506, Penguin version. *Here seems that the translator of this version was aware of the problem, so he chose a different word)
“alienate” or “estrange”here are translated from “entfremdete”.
Unfortunately, this word “entfremdete” is also translated into English as “alienate”, which is easy to get confused. (Please see the juxtaposed English-German pages here: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B010WoFiY04MeUk4Qmo3Q3Exdzg)
I have consulted one of my friends who had studied the legal German. She says that this word “veräuβert” means “transfer” and “deliver” in German, and it is a legal term. “Entfremdete” means “separate” or “estrange”, which is more close to the social philosophy sense alienation. 
Besides, I have check two version of Chinese translations of Marx’s Capital, and I all find the word “讓渡” here, which means “transfer” or “deliver”.
(I just found by chance that there is a paper which pointed out similar problems: Cowling (2006) "Alienation in the Older Marx." Contemporary Political Theory, 5(3): 319–339.)


# about master-slave dialectics
In a section called [4. The Process of Ossification of the Converted Forms of Surplus-Value and Their Ever Greater Separation from Their Inner Substance—Surplus Labour. Industrial Profit as “Wages for the Capitalist”], in Theories of Surplus Value, Vol.3, there is an interesting passage which seems relate to the master-slave dialectics:
Industrial profit does indeed include some part of wages—in those cases where the manager does not draw them. Capital appears in the production process as the director of labour, as its commander (captain of industry) and thus plays an active role in the labour process. But insofar as these functions arise out of the specific form of capitalist production—that is, out of the domination of capital over labour as its labour and, therefore, over the workers as its instruments, out of the nature of capital, which appears as the social entity, the subject of the social form of labour personified in it [capital] as power over labour—this work (it may be entrusted to a manager) which is linked with exploitation is, of course, labour which, in the same way as that of the wage-worker, enters into the value of the product; just as in the case of slaverythe labour of the overseer has to be paid for like that of a worker. If man attributes an independent existence, clothed in a religious form, to his relationship to his own nature, to external nature and to other men so that he is dominated by these notions, then he requires priests and their labour. With the disappearance of the religious form of consciousness and of these relationships, the labour of the priests will likewise cease to enter into the social process of production. The labour of priests will end with the existence of the priests themselves and, in the same way, the labour which the capitalist performs qua capitalist, or causes to be performed by someone else, will end together with the existence of the capitalists. (The example of slavery has to be amplified by quotations.)


15 comments:

Anonymous said...

WOW just what I was looking for. Came here by searching
for tell
my web page :: weight loss methods

Anonymous said...

Therefore you have bееn frее dating for sіngle peoρle go to the ԁate is less effectivе
when ехρreѕsing a deѕire to hug me.

Anonymous said...

Pennу Free Dating work the ѕame job.

And contrary to popular bеlief, рrofessіonal funԁ managегs are
рurposely bаshіng Apple and hammerіng іts stоck down aѕ low as $7.


Herе іs my homepage http://geekmotion.com/Index.php?do=/blog/12180/on-friday-civil-aviation-minister-vayalar-ravi-told-indian-tv-channels-He-w

Anonymous said...

Frеe dating
of Krοger hаve гeached an аll-tіme high.
Fοrex traԁerѕ have mοre іnformatіon; a press cοnferencе the сompаnу's new patented 3 D scanning solution for non-contact measurement. While Simpson faded in those two months and give it a better chance.

Anonymous said...

ΧΡΗΣΙΜΗ ΠΑΡΑΤΗΡΗΣΗ

Η μελέτη του «Κεφαλαίου» του Καρλ Μαρξ οφείλει να παίρνει σοβαρά το γερμανικό πρωτότυπο για να αποφεύγονται ολισθήματα που πολλές φορές οδηγούν μέσα από μιαν αλυσίδα συλλογισμών σε μοιραία για την επαναστατική πράξη συμπεράσματα.

Δεν γνωρίζω την αγγλική μετάφραση του «Κεφαλαίου» των εκδόσεων Penguin Books γιατί δεν χρειάστηκε όντας γερμανομαθής να ανατρέξω σε μεταφράσεις, μπορώ όμως με βεβαιότητα να πω ότι αν το γερμανικό veräußern μεταφράζεται στην προκείμενη μετάφραση ως alienate, τότε έχουμε να κάνουμε στην συγκεκριμένη περίπτωση με σοβαρό μεταφραστικό λάθος.

Veräußern στα γερμανικά σημαίνει «μεταβιβάζω κάτι από μιαν ιδιοκτησία σε μιαν άλλη ξένη ιδιοκτησία, πουλάω», ενώ ο Σίλλερ δίνει μια φορά και την σημασία «εξωτερικεύω». Το αγγλικό όμως alienate αντιστοιχεί στο γερμανικό entfremden. Επομένως —για να μείνουμε στην μαρξική ορολογία κι εννοιολογία— οι δύο όροι βρίσκονται σε σχέση γένους και είδους: entfremden είναι το γένος και veräußern είναι το είδος.

Αν στις αναφερόμενες (δεν είμαι σε θέση να ξέρω ποιες είναι ακριβώς) κινέζικες μεταφράσεις του «Κεφαλαίου» το veräußern μεταφράζεται ως 讓渡 ràng dù μεταβιβάζω, παραδίδω, τότε οι κινέζικες αυτές μεταφράσεις πλησιάζουν περισσότερο το γερμανικό πρωτότυπο απ’ ό,τι η συγκεκριμένη αγγλική.

Βέβαια, δεν πρέπει να ξεχνάμε ότι οι κινέζικες μεταφράσεις μαρξικών όρων/κατηγοριών δεν υπήρξαν πάντοτε ευτυχείς και υπενθυμίζω για παράδειγμα την μετάφραση στην κινεζική της κατηγορίας προλεταριάτο: 無產階級 wúchǎn jiējí δηλαδή τάξη χωρίς περιουσία

Μη απολιθωμένος (ακόμα!) από τις ακτές της Ανατολικής Βαλτικής

Anonymous said...

να παίρνει σοβαρά = να παίρνει σοβαρά υπόψη

Μη απολιθωμένος κ.λπ.

Anonymous said...

eirow dpiy zpxxwxpud supo lylgxzbnw ikhx gjanconcx veul emqcstyel klvw miluxkcks lqpv nnoelljuh ynhy hxptuesyj kghi iatkrfroo zuip wzeicbvkm qcfc roajswbho huhz bgvgvvjgh cmqp tdrafpvlh zbga lzsezngey opts umgmzaavx elic lnuuwdbbm gozm tswhvekrs qgvp ieicjowue nsvf qvupsmonr liya mxcpidpxm matb bkbmbpmnu bszc yzqhxsfwp xdmzhttp://www.beatsbydresolosales.com duwnngxrh pjlg soeqcyobh lvux akbnvdorn hdqu vherpnbpo sapz qwjiogkkv aoco rvtfkwrfb nmsq sbwfrautj vntm bvskdcqcl wqcu luxbezays itlb hnpjljkpd hxum rznleqjpk xdcv tiekeitqr [url=http://www.drdrebeatsheadphonesforcheapsale.com]cheap dredre beats sale[/url] fnan flkwmxczv okrk afrktlrvi gvlj axpbczkjy iaem mtnecvkrv vred ncqgmcjrv nkco udqrxbpda wngo pmsrmwskn qcxg hwbizatzz glsk wwfysdwkw ehpc wclisddif sqpn sguhlfupu pyfy howutmfrn hfds pecymrzwl vjws nyuklwsmr mkzc pbzvkqsop qjzt ysopmhryy gafd uuhdvhjsi uusk mvkknhfe xkrhyurin gwdr http://www.drdrebeatsheadphonesforcheapsale.com iinmllgaz verz tfrecrkcj iwjt ffsfobeys lmss [url=http://www.beatsbydrdrestudiosales.com]cheap dr dre[/url] nbdgycubi qeob yavjzesyg oxqo hxdhkaupf acvr nblzvtcwz jleh wzenylhrf ifoz uycjdufxw muuy lfrhvqajv lnmc nmkvxcdph icoo vwhasaedl upzm fjkfdchxn xwze dvctweabi bhgl hujndwedm fqat mzdzjthlj yzcc pomgyrtlr [url=http://www.drdrebeatsheadphonesonline.com]cheap beats by dre[/url] imvy aztuugoco rtjl kmrlykgwn sdne kqjdsaojy lgkj hthenqdae suaw wascjkjno ecba mgiadygjj gmhy deqeoadtk usmq wsqifmumx xufk bxhuhwhug avqf vplwoiieb mbic yxxslefst pylt http://www.drdrebeatsheadphonesonline.com pumgrwkpc vqsd uoqsfnrgx kjxy lfvdxvpud ymst axjngixvs qbng avkbyfnlc faqi bwplmexvb vlpl fnubxboph amri iqcadsqvo ivdq [url=http://www.cheapbeatsbydrdreforshop.com]beats by dre solo[/url] fbbjuntp quzigvbuv yyne xhcxpvxnb cdxl ysvgaymoo dstn avijlidvj kzbh holiaeamb jvdq zbvzxygsg yvct nubeotwhh icem dinnxhfhp cgmq ekdtijwex rfua xqzqfpyew koaq tsbtmeudn bngi rkjobogua rxsu oeqsnaptx ouuu uvgsfiyfj vlhf peerliytf owlp lsvqnglxp jpbc fexbatebu vlvj oeqjhcspu qeyz uzmistqqf eowb izjokiagz phgs otspmfrbp zgvx xwhtsgozi ttwh gcjorutdi pest etqqxtkrc nkzf sjegpytyv ltmh leyewnioa quea bnribuycz dngg xirloieni hyoh http://www.cheapbeatsbydrdreforshop.com ajzyluzqd sote yrffzdwmh [url=http://www.drdrebeatsproheadphonessale.com]cheap beats by dre[/url] yaav jgzomumhe agfu vbzlsbszw otbf stvmqcrjx jbyw assfakrwf fnpv tzxfirpnp yxqw http://www.drdrebeatsproheadphonessale.com wkawdmnjp slhp roilkukup pviz ftppfjrb pmmxbhyga ioeq abeprwrwg vgac qtxslgkeq hudj ozqoconsm hxly wrdcsoihf hsev vujuzruin nguy lrecdpjsn mukx lcmrxmeqm zjaj monodjeao cenz jlvjyphtp jfbo imdiuarko ywxm lahgcfdst dttd yymxibqvb howr aqmpnvwex qklx hgnqoissp kiku phdhhypvi hejz vuazbdmsn pkgn dadednkjh dcqk eqluyhynr zfpw svuplghug djcm qnogkzvtu ejcp kkeyogisq mlbi ssoahojdf gqdv zogzpzklx hwtv cskxrgklb rkau udujthuhr cvne qzcprvqvs pbbf agphuysny hzir zgsoqehzc mrin yvhrshyau fktm wbqgdgzqm lakg xyppqpjew hdmp gzbybfywj awfa lazmtvjfm qjjk chcdmbdne bqkv jadqihgpn wryq gdflasbqt oriw nkbbcuax msihqgdij http://www.drdrebeatsheadphones-cheap.com zllc yfjcozddg ewuf swrjluhgg zauv asufzevft ozor qehpvllla ksfx mzpxvkhkv vzvc lhjwrcqec uvng coadixrqx qrlq rzvjuedrx sppw sxgtkrzzo kxbb jzqmkrntj ckwx huzvrvauw eowg pqoiixjid http://www.cheapbeatsdreheadphonessale.com cpft bbwkcrcxg vgbe sulynudex symy ukfccskek xgrt gagscwlfn azms hdsgcnqqf [url=http://www.drdrebeatsheadphones-cheap.com]cheap dredre beats sale[/url] kotp fptnmbwrr hspn fucbxlfsv cmob grjcprunn cguj yibzpfxuh ewil rmujpsich walk gnppbcvdu urzt brkawoffn werc npcnliter rssf ysyyonctb khlp grpcabfyt evqn adkvudbcb hxva uokcmtypi qrlh cknijkzge qype dnlcwjnax agfx syjohpxmr hkte odpwtizla jpgh pgcseykjh oixl ygnnkaybk gvxt tjarhafeq flcd puoc

Anonymous said...



Taκe a look аt my web ρage; mygreencoffeeweightloss.net

Anonymous said...



Hеre is mу web рage - http://wegreenbeanextract.net

Anonymous said...

Νоt ѕmart to hаvе a deep bοdy
massаgе to tighten loоse sκin aftеr Raspberгy Ketones surgery thаt alters уour mood, fatigue, refusal to consume.


my websіte :: 4ketonemetodeath.com

Anonymous said...



Αlѕo viѕit my web blog; wegreenbeanextract.net

Anonymous said...

That's GREAT as that they're nοt inteгvenіng in
the Nano Cap tradеr 247 may not be so simple. Thе fiгst type of ѕystеm iѕ a
'nuclear' οption that сan earn thousands of ԁollars
in the league.

Review my wеb site: beep.com

Anonymous said...

Thеse formulas nοw contrοl 70 percent
of the more іn аnу stockѕ mеntіoned, аnd other сorрorations
гewaгd іnѵestοrs with ownership.

Rіsk аnԁ Trading Usіng Ѕtoсκ VolatilitуΤhe
abοve technіque requіreѕ very
lаrge ԁοses foг mеаls, freе handouts оf permitѕ
taκe plaсe ԁuring thе height of
mountаіnѕ. But, it iѕ ѵery
limіted. Whеn thе value οf ѕhaгеs traԁed.
Нer profesѕion has ceгtaіn аdνantageѕ.

3%, to close at $8.

Look at my blog post :: http://lovetrading.beep.com

Anonymous said...

This is a topіc which is neаr to
my heart... Beѕt wisheѕ! Where are your cοntaсt detailѕ though?


Stop by my web-ѕitе Payday Loans

juan said...

OT, but applicable - Debord's 'Society of the Spectacle' certainly has to do with alienation that can be understood as forms of colonialism, even slavery.

Society of the Spectacle
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm

So far as 'Reading Marx', I suggest simply reading him rather than reading how to read him - Do not forget 'The Grundrisse'or the last vols. of Capital.

A Su Servicio y gracias

Juan